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Message |
| Posted By: |
UT |
| Response to: |
unmanifested is really real,
Posted by: henrydianna |
| Date: |
6-Jan-2005-09:56:58 |
| Subject: |
Re: unmanifested is really real |
It's keen that you like the Gnostics, but do you understand that they (and other Dualists such as the Cathars) believed that *because* the Earth was created by Satan, not God, that release from the bondage of the physical world was *not* possible while living in a physical body?
That means no liberation (enlightenment) while living, only after death.
That means that no vision or "high" experience, not even the ones you describe with Rama, could ever be considered real, or valid, because they happened on the physical plane. Gnosis was the closest one could get -- a total immersion in the absolute (samadhi), which by definition has no qualities or attributes and cannot therefore be described. And even that was suspect, because the perceiver was still physical. The thinking was, "If you can describe it, the experience has to do with the physical plane, and thus comes from Satan."
Welcome to the world of Dualism. :-)
The philosophy appealed to folks in early times, and in the Middle Ages, because it enabled them to avoid the Christian Conundrum -- "If the world was created by God, who we are told is omnipotent and omniscient and just, and the world is as fucked up and unjust as all of us perceive it to be, then the stuff about omnipotence and omniscience and justness must be a lie and God must be really fucked up and unjust." So a lot of folks preferred to believe in the Dualist ideas, which allocated God to a faraway realm called Spirit, and taught that neither He (nor Christ) ever actually dwelled or interfaced with the physical world. That world (the earth) was created and dominated by Satan.
It made sense then. To some, it still does. But to anyone who has actually had experiences of enlightenment, even temporary ones, it's a crock of shit. Enlightenment *is* possible while in a physical body. Samsara *is* Nirvana. And Haagen-Dazs still makes the best vanilla ice cream, because it's got those little dark chunks of vanilla bean mixed in with the pure-white ice cream. Duality rocks. :-)
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