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Message |
| Posted By: |
Yogini |
| Date: |
8-Apr-2004-12:54:47 |
| Subject: |
Further Conversations With Firebird |
Because you "enjoy this type of conversation," (as do I), I thought I'd bring it uptodate and start a fresh page here. You made mention of an important aspect to our conversation which is:
"perhaps our apparent disagreement on this issue arises of different understandings re: the meaning of emptiness?"
This could very well be. What is your description of Emptiness? We could have a further discussion of that, but for the time being, I am going on the premise that my definition is correct, otherwise I couldn't answer your statements. So, until I read your definition, I will reply with what I think it means.
"how are the self, and/or thoughts, *not* empty?"
I think the term "Empty" is used because they can't find a name to call It. It is just another state of mind amongst many. Empty implies that there isn't an awareness, and I don't think you can go outside of Mind. I call God/It/Whatever "Mind" because I believe there is only Awareness. Since there are different states of mind, there has to be different awareness'. So maybe 'Empty' is just one of them. I don't think it is THE ONE because awareness is about being aware and you can't say for certain that God/Eternity/It doesn't have an awareness. There is too much structure in this Universe to have randomness. As the old saying goes "As above, So below," this world reflects the aspects of God/It/Whatever.
"You can't just label everything as empty just because the essence is emptiness. hm? "
What I meant is that there is an awareness even though it is empty. Empty Awareness? Maybe, but awareness nonetheless.
"There is awareness and that isn't empty. are you serious? : o "
Why not? Are you saying there isn't any awareness and that it's all emptiness as in nothing? How did you get your awareness then? Where did it come from?
"really, it doesn't seem to make a difference whether we're in hell or in heaven, the whole gig's inherently empty."
Even though you may call it empty, there is definitely a difference between being in a hellish or a heavenly state of mind. As in "having a Bad Day??" When I have one, I definitely don't feel empty that's for sure! So how come my awareness on this day is different from my essence? How can this contradictory state exist if my essence is emptiness?
When you say it's inherently empty, that to me is contradictory. Because our awareness comes from Something or Somewhere. So, that IT can't be empty. Maybe one of its aspects is emptiness, but it has to have other qualities too. Just as we possess other qualities within our natures. I know what you're saying when you say it's all empty...but I wonder about that as whether that is really true. To be honest with you, I think God/It/Emptiness has a dualistic nature. It can be both. It is too BIG to have just one aspect, don't you think? It would have to incorporate all states of mind and they say there's at least 10,000, right? So that can't come from an emptiness. They just don't know what to call it so they said "Let's just call it Emptiness and be done with it!" Really, I believe that.
"...find the basis of self and thought first
Well, I thought I did when I said there is only Mind (awareness) and emptiness that you speak of is just one state of it.
"the totality of it all exists right here right now, in just this"
If my understanding is correct, I gather that you mean Emptiness to be the essence behind it all, is that correct? But are you also saying that this essence is just empty and has no awareness? See..I would have to see what your definition of emptiness is before I can go further. So, really, I can't respond to your other statements until then. Because I am assuming your definition and I could be wrong. So, if you could please give me a definition, we could take it from there.
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