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 International Speak (excerpt from the board)
contributed
by Various
Posted By: Wild Ways
Date: May 1, 1999
Recently, I saw an interesting discussion on another spiritual forum, in which someone stated simply that there was a real value in actually being able to sit in the same room with a spiritual teacher whom you consider to be enlightened (or close to it). I was shocked to see that this was not a universally- shared opinion. Traditions that spring from long-dead teachers or that emphasize the value of techniques in spiritual practice do not always see the value in this.
It made me realize how spoiled I was in my experience with Rama. He let us hang with him.
It made me realize that this is an aspect of spiritual practice that is not often talked about, because it is not always available. So I thought I would talk about it a little here, among those to whom such an experience _was_ available.
I am NOT talking about darshan or grace or transmission or empowerment or whatever you may call _that_ phenomenon. Although that phenomenon certainly exists, and has value, that is not what I mean. What I have in mind is even more intangible and unproveable, but in my opinion is just as valuable. Call it mind-modeling.
When you get to sit and watch a possibly enlightened teacher do his or her thing, what you are watching (in my opinion) is enlightenment dancing. It is an aspect of spiritual teaching that is difficult to get from books, and (again in my opinion) only slightly less difficult to get from audio- or videotapes of the same individual. You get to see the everyday minutiae of everyday life, as performed by someone who has more of a clue about how life works than most. I think that over time, by sitting in the same room with a teacher whose mind models the energy of enlightenment, students learn to perceive that deeper, intangible energy and begin to pick up clues of their own.
Not necessarily from the teacher's behavior. The phenomenon I am speaking of is more subtle than that. One of the drawbacks of this aspect of teaching is that if one has had the opportunity to watch and interact with only one teacher, there is a strong tendency to mistake that teacher's mannerisms, their style of teaching and their behavioral patterns for the mannerisms, the style of teaching and the behavioral patterns of enlightenment itself.
But then you meet another teacher, and get to observe them. And often you discover that the second teacher's mannerisms, style of teaching and behavioral patterns are _completely_ different from those of the first teacher.
Yet there is something common between the two teachers, something intangible. I believe that this commonality -- intangible though it may be -- IS enlightenment, and that over time it can be identified and absorbed to some extent by the student. The teacher "mind-models" enlightenment in action, and the perceptive student gets to see the dance and learn from it. Not from the individual steps of the individual dance, perhaps, but definitely from the underlying energy that makes the dance a study in elegance and flow, as opposed to a clumsy stumble through life.
Enlightenment dances through the enlightened. Each dance is different. And each dancer is different. But somehow the energy is the same: enlightenment. Over time, I believe that students can begin to "map" to the energy of enlightenment itself, and by seeing it dance in another, can begin to see more of that same energy within themselves, and bring it to their own dance.
Enlightenment. I give it a 100. It's got a good beat. You can dance to it.
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Posted By: Kim
Response to: Enlightenment Dancing posted by Wild Ways
Date: May 1, 1999
enlightenment dances through the enlightened...
i love that...it feels exactly as how it felt with rama. you have just given words to many things i had not yet given words to.
i often wonder why he spoon (even at our "puppy-stage") fed us with such magnificent and uncomprehensible mind-blasting experiences. i can also totally relate to not being able to share these experiences with others who did not have access to such empowerment. these "others" represent 99.5% of the people around me. if it were not for the internet, i would not have found this emerging haven of similar individuals who have dived into the golden aura of an actual enlightened Presence.
i mean, i've met people that walk the path of meditation, some through zen, some through kundalini, some through devoted prayer, some through western yoga... but then, i "see" that the energy that they're tapped into is small, like the burning of a torch while mine feels like a volcano or a nuclear plant in comparison.
i have no way to relate to them in terms of the transcendental experiences involved. i sometimes (well, many times)consider myself dysfunctional because i don't play by the normal rules of the first-attention-kingdom. i don't even understand them anymore, much less feel their effects...and when i put effort into trying to "normalize" my perception in order to be at a level of understanding them, my mind only sees a blur...unable to "freeze" or "pause" spacetime to descend, not even for a little while, into the perceptual planes of the first attention.
i consider myself a veritable alien among my fellow hondurans. (i live in honduras, of course) and it sucks to feel that way all the time, every day and have no one to talk to about any of it. i have no friends that have done the same thing as i have here in honduras, and as in any walk of life, it is invaluable to have friends to share life itself. i don't complain about my experiences, but i would give much to share myself almost daily with someone who has belonged to the same legacy of presencing enlightenment.
i wonder how many of us have ended up so far away from all of us. i also remember rama saying once that he had a dream for the future, it was to own an island and have a center for all those that quest the infinite in the path he taught. that would have been wonderful, to have a place to go to once a year or so, knowing that many of us would be there. the more i think about it, the more i realize that we are all of one "race", of one energy, we all belong in contact because we have all shared the same Dance of Infinity.
I truly wish for us to unite and come together somehow...i truly wish it for all of us. peace to all, i love you.
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Posted By: freespirit
Response to: Beautiful... posted by Kim
Date: May 2, 1999
I can't help but think that my little addition to the two beautiful entries on this branch is a bit of an anti-climax to you readers. No poetry in my writing I'm afraid. However, I do understand and identify with where you are both coming from. But, obviously in a quite different way.
Firstly, I never met Rama in this lifetime. Yet, the longer I am involved with RamaLila, and the more contact I have with his students, the more familiar it all feels to me. Almost like deja-vu - but not in a 'repeat' fashion. Rather, it seems to me that I have been privileged in my past to have been very close to Rama, and perhaps also to many of you. Just not so (until now) in this life! Quite a weird feeling to have - I can assure you. And not one that I would bother to try to explain to too many people - although somehow I think you guys would understand!
The feeling that he is my friend, a guide and strength giver is a very bizarre one for me. I mean, I have never experienced anything like this (that I recall), and yet it is a feeling that I become more and more comfortable with each and every day. This is wonderful I can assure you.
At first I was very frustrated and I would guess a tad jealous of you guys that can sit here and describe your physical interaction with Rama. But with time I have come to realize that I am one of the lucky ones - whether this is to do with past lives that I do not remember (but perhaps are starting to), or whether this is to do with Rama's interaction with my current life. Whatever it is, it is great!
I am dealing with things in my life now which are mindblowingly horrendous - and which only became apparent to me in the past week. Family law type shit, and very scary I can assure you. I think that a combination of my meditation, my yoga, my interaction with Rama's students and what I have with him directly (if you could call something so indefinable 'direct'), have together given me incredible strength to stay powerful. Without these things I would surely be a nervous wreck. And then I would be useless and powerless for my child, who is my most precious love.
I (in this life) have never met an 'enlightened dancer' - and am not sure whether I will ever get the opportunity either. Like how many enlightened teachers are there in Melbourne, Australia? I wouldn't want to be placing any bets! So I cannot comment on the experience.
My only exposure to Rama is here at RamaLila, through the students, and through the limited number of his books, and tapes that I have had the pleasure of experiencing (thankfully I have a stockpile of new material to peruse!). I am not sure that I tap into the 'enlightenment dance' directly via these media - I get the feeling that somehow these are unlocking memories deep down inside me. Like things just seem to click like "oh yeah" and "yes I always thought that", but never realised that they fitted into any particular scheme of things. But now I see them in new light. Sort of like solving a koan!
Perhaps my lack of exposure to enlightened figures in this lifetime is of benefit - I don't have to muddle through the complex personality traits to decipher what is 'enlightenment' and what are just idiosyncrasy's of the individual. (Perhaps I'm just trying to make myself feel better?).
And Kim, as far as being isolated. I did feel this some months ago - it was an awful feeling. But it was explained to me - and now I feel it quite strongly - that I am indeed part of a union here. Even though I am geographically so far from the majority of students, this is only a physical obstacle. Once I get beyond this level of thinking it is a whole different ball game. Sure I am really looking forward to physically meeting some of the students - I hope later this year - however I feel so close now, despite the distance. You know that amazing feeling of being totally on the same wave length with another person - well I have experienced this, just chatting over the computer, with students. This is quite amazing! So you are only an alien so far as you ignore this forum and the opportunity to interact via e-mail - believe me it has been great for me.
Hey guys I just love your writing!
:)
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Posted By: Wild Ways
Response to: Beautiful... posted by freespirit
Date: May 2, 1999
> No poetry in my writing I'm afraid.
I disagree. I think you _nailed_ the phenomenon I was mouthin' off about in the term "déja vu." That's it, exactly, and you nailed it without having the experience of sitting in the same room as Rama.
When enlightenment dances -- whether it is in person or in books or tapes -- what we see and identify with in that dance is the sense of _familiarity_. It reminds us of something we sense within ourselves and wish to see more of in our daily lives.
Enlightenment is familiar because we have it within us. Seeing it dance in others enlivens it within us and inspires us to dance, too. I am inspired just by reading your post. It brought to me that same feeling of déja vu that you are speaking of seeing in Rama's books and tapes. I think I'm gonna go out dancing.
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Posted By: Kim
Response to: Beautiful... posted by freespirit
Date: May 2, 1999
Thanks for your encouragement! I spent four long years "stranded" and alone, and until just recently i found this meeting place. It is VERY refreshening to share with you parts of my inner life after so many years of having it bottled up. And i am very grateful that you share parts of yours too. Wild Ways made me look at this bulletin board with new eyes, and with your sharing, you've made me look at it with new hope. Thank you once again!
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